The 17th Edge Debate: 10th March 2003

Action Points

1. Nuclear - lack of political courage? 12050 renewables: - 15 large windmills every day. Will Energy Strategy Unit take any notice? Institutions responded to PIU and resulted in disappointing white paper. Must proceed this way. It is the way democracy works. More practical the recommendation the better and follow up in other ways. Institutions have a role and make it known that they are doing something.
2. Don't overstate the difficulty of the renewables target. Equivalent to 4.5 years of German wind installation. 3.5GW installed in 2002 where wind environment is not as favourable. But there is a limit to renewables. Should not give impression that there is one answer to the problem. Need a combination of solutions incl. Distributed electricity with enormous reductions in carbon emissions. Too simplistic to just talk about renewables.
3. How do you incentivise on energy efficiency. White paper represents sea change in govt thinking in efficiency. But it does not provide additional resources for improvement on efficiency. Don't need more consultation. Use of word 'may' smacks of putting off difficult decision. Funding on Warm Front to be cut.
4. Does it address challenges of improving efficiency of existing building stock? Not rocket science but needs carrots and sticks
5. EU directive: 4/1/03 into law in next 3 years. 3 components: min energy performance standards (part l in UK but with some changes will impact on existing stock); energy labelling for all buildings at the time of change of ownership/tenancy. All public buildings must display labelling. Institutions which provide public services might also need to provide energy labelling; in plant inspection - regular A/c and boiler plant inspection. New assessors to do this. 7-8000 people full time doing this.
6. Role of innovation: we should not overstate role of embryonic technologies - like micro chp? Holland made more progress with the right drivers. Danger in rushing to market with inadequately tested technology. Could address with more people in the field
7. Should not forget interface with prime movers and the systems. This is where the investments fall down. Not about counting number of installed condensing boilers but it is how many work. Condensing boilers is rocket science.
8. But micro CHP is marketable now. On question of drivers: UK have sticks. Germany have carrots. RO is rigid regime. If you do not comply you pay fines which go to competitors. Need an alternative means of compliance. Need to recycle some of the fine funding as incentives.
9. CO2 sequestration: under NETA, no electricity player in UK can afford to or would if there was more money in the market take on new investment until circumstances change in the industry.
10. Legal issues with CO2 disposable? But a huge opportunity for UK
11. What about nuclear: Efficient industry with no CO2. Where will the energy come from with the ending of the nuclear?
12. Energy efficiency: UK could take on EU directive - large amount of energy to be saved which are cost effective. As well as a survey when buildings are sold. Should go further and argue for all cost-effective energy saving means should be implements on a 10-15 year payback period. Building societies should lend on this basis. Only means to address existing stock. Building societies currently make retentions on sales until some issues are sorted out, but not energy (yet)
13. We are talking about energy, heat and electricity. Need to be clear on what we are talking about. In building environment, need to talk about heat and cold. Need ways of storing heat. Problem we have is that we are confusing electricity and heat and calling them both energy.
14. Experience of having designed innovative solutions and left them in the hands of people who are not interested. Question of education. How are we addressing it? New technology needs to go hand in hand with a service team to pick it up.
15. Education is critical, and more world wide. We need to educate the customer and the client, so the demand is there to meet the supply
16. Jimmy Carter's energy policy: energy audit for domestic buildings. What become of it? A large part of it was an encouragement for small-scale hydro. Should not be forgotten. But issue of abstraction law and goes back with farmers' rights.
17. Nuclear and security. There is a terrorism issue. Less threat to wind turbines.
18. German: energy policy - draft not shown to energy companies. Kept the vested interests out of the law to encourage new thinking.
19. Education: attractive careers. Only 2 manufacturers in the world making micro chp units. We need to be saying that it is okay to use your hands in your career. We look down on people who are practical. Where will we find the people who will make the units?
20. More responsibilities for designers: to make sure airtight walls are built but also to produce guidance document for building users. Extensive testing on cars but not on buildings.
21. We need guidance on design and construction for sustainable buildings. We need cross the board code of practice.
22. Air tight buildings: used to be able to do, dry construction methods
23. Impressed with Europe, horrified by the States. What can be done? US, having rejected Kyoto are now putting vast investment into carbon capture and distributed generation. They are doing things but not subscribing to theoretical commitment.
24. Energy security: White paper does not address it fully. Crunch will come with liquid fuels for transport within 10-20 years. Is hydrogen an answer? A long term prospect. Need bigger emphasis on liquid bio-fuels. If done globally, may reduce international conflicts
25. Seems we are saying we can all do our bit, but all need some sort of incentive, to fund it, or to get it done. Have to be draconian. We are saying the government has not done this. It has produced a wish list. Needs to be more proactive. How do we influence it? Is it about getting everyone together on one platform, on this one global issue and try and speak with one voice
26. Future of nuclear engineering is dying. We will lose the skills and have to import them. Whole thing went down hill when electricity was privatised and we assumed that the market would solve it. Only answer must be a political one. Where this group could have an impact is to deal with the document, as the authors should have. There is no costed action list. We should go through the document and produce an action list. Then take it to the DTI and go through it point by point with the minister.
27. There is no new money available for the energy policy. With no money you do not need an action list.
28. Business as usual in Russia and China is going to be the norm and will pour out CO2. What can we do if all this CO2 is going to come from aboard? This is the reason for carbon trading. It will have a global effect - you put your money where it will have the best effect.
29. There should be a working party that looks not at what exists but what should exist - bulbs that satisfy 'the wife' and the energy requirement. We need to say things are not satisfactory and needs to be reinvented.

Conclusion

• It is aspirational more than practical. It needs a complimentary document with an action plan. We should see whether the institutions can get together.
• Document needs to be prepared. Suggest Adam Poole be charged with trying to create a multi-intitutional platform for action Notes should be posted of this meeting and he should report back to the group in due course